richmond / newark

BIG WELL DONE TO KENNY...............

1ST..K NOBLE................1356.9
2ND..R DIXON.DTR.........1329.1
3RD..R DIXON.DTR.........1318.0
4TH..R DIXON.DTR.........1260,6
5TH..R DIXON.DTR.........1244.4
********************BASKETS BACK BEFORE MOST OF BIRDS**************



Your birds aren't up here. We are loads missing as well never cleared nothing to do with all up together
Alan Todd Winlaton hs


Blaydon Racer's picture

At the minute I'm 18 short out of 38 so are mine all down the bottom end of the Amal ? or across in the west? - because they aren't up here --and neither are yours

Albert Jones
Winlaton HS

There was liberations from Newark heading for Essex and four liberations at 10.45 at aycliffe heading for Peterborough and Leicester heading into ours.
Should have been libbed at 6.30 instead of waiting for unc to go first

birds that have not cleared ,do not come back out of north as ours are doing . problem is they,ve stopped coming

Lots missing here aswell, most lads are at least half there team down. Lucky if there's a bird every couple hours now.

Should we not maybe look at our race points? Why not change line of flight and fly more centrally down the country keep us away from everyone flying down the east? M1 corridor is just like the motorway for birds to much air traffic


totally agree ..we are supposed to be WEST durham amal ..50% of team gone in four races..we have put up with yb,s coming from north for years .amal will lose out financialy,,we as a club are losing members to other organisations where we / they are the last drop..i love to race. but if i want to put some young in team for next year then i will have to stop most now or risk having nowt left.


i have seen a few drop in this morning at southmoor. They are mainly coming from the east with a couple coming straight out but nothing coming from behind.

So our pigeons must be up Berwick get it in your heads they are not coming up here or we we have all ours back.I have got 7 this morning every one in saw came straight from the south.
The liberation sets the tone they have not cleared full stop.still 11missing out of 47
Alan Todd
Winlaton H.S

Got yb in from Manchester and shu in this morning

alan todd / adement they not cleared / convoyer says opposite ..alan has one to come up there ..we down here still loads missing ???

sorry misread eleven to come..fingers now crossed..they turn in or we will have to stop racing or send only hen yb,s club birdage will be low this week...finacial suicide..??

I had 11missing not 1 I was 17 missing last night I'm down to 9 now .True peter I wasn't there only my opinion from past races when birds don't come back it's usually not clearing .I am not one of these who take sides like some members .I just want good racing and my birds home.We need to find out what's going wrong or it will ruin the sport
Alan Todd

I had 11missing not 1 I was 17 missing last night I'm down to 9 now .True peter I wasn't there only my opinion from past races when birds don't come back it's usually not clearing .I am not one of these who take sides like some members .I just want good racing and my birds home.We need to find out what's going wrong or it will ruin the sport
Alan Todd

I had 11missing not 1 I was 17 missing last night I'm down to 9 now .True peter I wasn't there only my opinion from past races when birds don't come back it's usually not clearing .I am not one of these who take sides like some members .I just want good racing and my birds home.We need to find out what's going wrong or it will ruin the sport
Alan Todd

I had 11missing not 1 I was 17 missing last night I'm down to 9 now .True peter I wasn't there only my opinion from past races when birds don't come back it's usually not clearing .I am not one of these who take sides like some members .I just want good racing and my birds home.We need to find out what's going wrong or it will ruin the sport
Alan Todd

I don't know what the answer is but I do know that it impossable to avoid clashing while ALL organisations race on the same day
I have 8 convoyers mobile numbers on my phone and up to 10am yesterday I had made & received 38 phone calls to them at Aycliffe, Seaham Harbour,Whitley bay and the Yorkshire men racing from Buckingham, They all want to know what the WDA are doing and are prepared to wait for us to go through but they can't/won't wait all day they have to get theirs home as well.
We could have Southroaders race Saturday and Northroaders race Sunday and alternate each weekend, [this won't happen the CAN'T brigade will see to that, they don't know why they CAN'T, they just CAN'T] if there's a poor forecast for Sat or Sun we would have to race on the same day
I know 1 organisation that have basketed Sat morning and raced Sat afternoon and have had 2 cracking races from Whitby for their 1st 2 yb races
I don't think the race points matter, the main route for the birds is up the Vale of York and the A1, Aycliffe and Scotch Corner are on the A1, On a day when the lib times are compressed into a few hours because of the weather they have to bump each other, on a west or east wind they are all flying at the same height
In the last 5 years I have won/shared the clubs yb average 5 times, I have won the YB NAT in the club for the last 5 years and finished 1st,1st,2nd,4th,7th,FED and twice highest vel in WDA from Huntingdon. I think I know how to fly ybs yet in the 1st 4 yb races I have lost 28 ybs [over half my team], I THINK WE HAVE A PROBLEM.
Do you think the groups we have are working,
Do you think we need to wait for the UNC to clear the area before we lib
Do you think we need to lib ASAP if the weather allows
Do you think YBs need to be picked up 4 hours earlier if the race is put back 24 hours
Do you think we are doing everything we can to solve the problem

peter matthews's picture

Differnce is mr todd i was t there cant remember seeing that means you made it up, spreading gossip. Birds cleared well going north.asked a convoyer to waty and watch for them when he comes south. He rang me at 12,28 saying he passed 3 batches between wetherby and ferrybridge.UNC convoyer rang at 17,37 to say our birds breaking west out off teeside in good numbers.
Peter matthews

peter matthews's picture

Sorry for misplaced letters as i was on my phone it jumping about from sentence to sentence.

One of the lads that was down there with you( part of your team) he supposedly said to u u needed to get the birds up at half six. Your responce is ment to have been you can't cos the unc are going at 7 is the what u said or is one of your lads lying ??

Blaydon Racer's picture

Well Brian here's my thoughts on the matter

Firstly I think everyone and their granny can see that the groups aren't working . My proposal would be all up together for all races and if this was not possible there to be a maximum of 2 liberations (North/South or East/West )
Also given that the majority of losses occur at the wakefield/Thorseby Hall/Newark races I would like to see one wakefield one Thoresby or Newark then two Leicester races followed by two peterboro or huntingdons--Leicester is about 165 to my loft and I wouldn't have a problem sending a fit yb that distance for its first race if it had missed the previous races for whatever reason ( wonder how many miles some of those ybs flew yesterday ?)

Talking to the Durham Combine lads they have the same problems loads of pigeons missing -- would it be worthwhile approaching them to arrange a joint yb programme with simultaneous liberations--they are all coming the same way and there is strength in numbers a little group of pigeons going the opposite way won't turn a big group of pigeons round

Liberation times and the decision to liberate should be left to the convoyers discretion without him having to follow instructions to liberate early or miss the UNC or not . I am 100% convinced that Peter would make the decision that was right for the birds without him having to follow instructions



Albert Jones
Winlaton HS

I think Ybs or Old dont need picked up 4 hours earlier they get their on time friday so diffrent on sat or sun but thats me I work and its hard to get their AS LIBS go biger the groups the better chance to get home ME lib ASP

Your not alone in losing them Brian, we are finished with youngsters for 2014 after yesterday. They and I Just can't take the punishment week after week.

We have members already mentioning finishing completely as they had their old bird teams wiped out at Billericay 3 years ago and then Maidstone 2 years ago and they have never recovered as the North/South Lib from Wakefield and the Leicester YB race last year created more damage to their team. They were looking to rebuild their teams this year and their teams are already annihilated.

Lib ASAP is not working on good days as everyone is trying to do the same and they are all pushing to get the same piece of sky. Look at the first few races. We never used to panic about getting them up at first light and got decent enough racing getting them home for lunchtime.

No pigeons do not need to be picked up 4 hours early just because they go a day later, there is nothing to stop those clubs who want to mark earlier to do so but don't make the full Amal do so and then be at Wakefield at 20:00 hrs on a Saturday night.

Yes, we need to let the UNC get out of the way but it is hard when they choose to lib at the same time as us with our last 2 cuts last week and their first 2, or 20 minutes after us when they are at Peterborough as has previously happened when we were at Huntingdon a few seasons ago.

It is no good members saying groups don't work if we don't abide by them. You may as well say all up together doesn't work, as after all yesterday was the worst race yet and they were put up together.

We have members pushing for all up together or North and South on here week after week despite the members democratically voting against it. Members need to accept if a split between North and South has been categorically rejected at the AGM to push for it is against the majority of the members wishes and to liberate them as such will be seen as sticking 2 fingers up to the membership and in fact will drive members away.

If Feds vote to go in groups/single libs that is there right and other Feds cannot dictate what happens to those groups nor tell them how many weeks that will or will not be.

The Durham Combine had a stinker out of Newark last weekend, we got a stinker this week. Come back Thoresby Hall all is forgiven :).

Re Hawks at Libsites, there are peregrines at Worksop, the locals don't train there as a result. There are peregrines more and more places en route now.
Wind and hitting wires etc. damaged far more than raptors yesterday.

It is time we had the option to have Old Bird (Cock and hen) baskets put on for the first few young bird races to have Club Opens for prize cards and pools only to have pigeons in the Convoy to pull away from the race point, If someone doesn't want to do it, it doesn't mean the rest of the Amal should be prevented from taking the opportunity to try and improve their returns/young bird racing.
Looking at the racing the last few years there are a lot of youngsters that are just not leaving the race point looking at the times they are coming through and where they are being reported.

It will add revenue to the Amal to cover costs, plus have pigeons in the Convoy that leave the race point on liberation and encourage the youngsters that do want to leave to pull away from those that don't. It will also help the front end lofts as when they do come through in batches 20 to 200 strong the old birds will break out of the batches and this will switch on the youngsters for the short lofts to pull out.

The first YB race this season yet again the majority of the pigeons missed Darlington from our cut and the majority that arrived were pulling out of the side/back etc.

The Logical grouping is Low and High side as we need them coming at the front to the members, not the side or the back as it is teaching them nothing but bad habits and if we don't address it we will be losing more members each year.

Two Cuts will allow Peter to leave 30 minutes between the two groups to let the first cut clear and ensure neither lib adversely affect the other.

Low Side Feds are Darlington, Deerness Valley, Sacriston and Newcastle.

High Side are Cockfield, West Durham, Crook, Annfield Plain, Tyne and Derwent and Consett Feds.

It is pointless putting them up North and South when the bottom end has members 30 plus miles apart East to West from the most Westerly/shortest race point.

As Brian has said, lets hear your constructive thoughts, we cannot continue to do what we always do as if we do nothing will alter.

As an organisation we should be looking to have full transporters every week, if we loose youngsters then we are not going to be able to send them as old birds next season and we will be struggling to send a decent birdage.

The first Inland National used to have 8,000 to 13,000 pigeons away, we are now getting 4,000 to 5,000 away?

Do members actually want to have the NEHU Inland Classic as part of the weekly WDA Programme or would we get a better turn out if we reverted back to the 2 x Maidstone Old Bird Nationals while allowing those who wish to send to the NEHU Classic facility to do so (as happened in the first couple of years of its existence)??

Ypres despite the sponsorship gained by Richard Wade was not a big turn out and I know a canny few who didn't send as they wish to race as the WDA, not with organisations from Hull/Yorkshire and have already said they will not send if repeated. Their opinion is the NEHU organisations are enough to compete against without adding more pull to the Coast.

Lets be clear, we are at a key point in our life as an organisation, if we don't address issues we will not have a future for much longer. We have half the membership of 20 years ago, this decrease in membership will only continue due to the demographic of the membership.



good suggestion re the Durham Combine, actually for the first 4 races they would be a logical grouping with the "Low Side" Feds of Darlington, Deerness Valley, Sacriston and Newcastle. It would give more quantity to the grouping and be one less lib to avoid.


Probably be shot for suggesting it but what about mid week afternoon racing for the first four young bird races then you will probably hit nothing. Birds could be liberated to return home after 5pm

Agree with everything Stuart says. I mentioned at begging of season about racing old hens with youngsters for first three or four races. I believe this has huge benefits on young bird returns in the early races from the organisations which practice it.

High side and low side I agree with more than north and south. I believe it would also be beneficial to try and partner up with durham combine in early races.

I believe we should also re look at lib sites and maybe change a few. Wakefield, Thorsby hall, and now Newark seem to be causing more damage than good the last good few seasons.

So why not look Pontefract and some lib points of days gone by where returns were much better.

Also why not look at lines of flight? Why are we so determined to fly the east coast? Why not fly much more centraly up to say race before Leicester such as Bradford, Huddersfield, and Chesterfield. then switch back onto the more eastern route? Many other organisations fly east to west upto 200 mile then fly south over the channel. So the birds can handle it and a lot less air traffic flying centraly than down the east coast where the UNC, north roaders, scottys etc all fly

I also think there's a hell of a lot of members these days keep training to a minimum due to the sheer cost and time. And rely more and more on transporter training, which to be honest is no where near enough I mean we are looking at one toss a week now since first race which is teaching youngsters nothing. Why don't the WDA Look at buying a small box van or trailer for training purposes then running cost would work out a lot better than driving a huge wagon to be quarter full and birds could be trained much more regularly.

Could also be trained further afield than Barton and more regularly. I know one fancier who has trained ybs since mid May and his losses are a lot less than others. But I also think most of the chaff has been lost by racing.

Just my thoughts.

As Michael says
How have returns been in midweek club?. As well as afternoon libs midweek or weekend. Anything has to an option one thing for sure we need to adapt and fast or it's game over.

I think libs to get birds back after say 3pm for first few races should see much quieter sky's and hawks should have Billy's full off morning libs.

However get a day with a bad morning and everyone will be libbing mid afternoon anyways.

cph's picture

2 years this weekend I posted TIME FOR CHANGE (page156 aprox) after 1 of the worst races ever for returns. all of the above points were mentioned, most of them were put forward for WDA AGM NOT ONE WAS PASSED.2YEARS on nothing has changed. most of the same members are on today saying the same as before. until all unions get together to try and find out why we are getting this racing year after year nothing will happen again. I don't think clashing is to blame most of our yb end up on the east coast if we were clashing why don't we get loads of GB strays up here. TRY some of the points raised but don't just do like before and this time next year it's all happening again. BILLY SCOTT (G Scott &Sons Pelton Buff H.S.)

I think for the first four races we should basket on Saturday morning for afternoon libs about 3pm by which time most others will have passed and gone, weather permitting of course and all up together

peter matthews's picture

That not possible its takes 4 hrs to pick up 45 mins for tacho's and then you have to get on site .then settle them.maybe sundays then if it bad you would end up on mondays, no good for workers.get the UNC to keep on the east

Nothing to do with the unc peter could u answer my question further up under one of your posts. It's it right you could of got them away at 6:30 but choose not to because of unc libbing at 7 this has come from one of the lads down there one of your team. You will never get the unc to move for us . The first unc birds libbed had good returns. That could of been us at half six but we never had the guts.

I spoke to Peter just before 6-30 [our 3rd conversation] and he informed me he could not go at 6-30 if he wanted to as he had full cloud cover on site

So why has one of the driver said the absolute opposite when dropping the baskets off Brian and it's a drive that is very experience and been there for a lot of year why would he lie.

Not sure your comment is fair at all, yesterday the UNC were all at Worksop and their first liberation was the full Tyne to Tweed Section.

Last week when we were at Thoresby Hall Peter contacted the UNC Chief Convoyer to co ordinate libs to get us all away cleanly. Eventually Peter made the decision to liberate as other organisations could not make their mind up to go or not.

The end result was the WDA started at 08:30 at 15 minute intervals, when our 3rd lib was let go at 08:45 the UNC liberated the Coquetdale Federation just under 6 miles North East of us pulling to the A19 and ours were South East of theirs pulling straight up the A1 (M).... They then liberated the Tynemouth North Federation at 09:15 (who got a severe spanking with massive losses) as the last of the 4 WDA libs were put up.

Given we had 4 libs again yesterday Peter had 45 minutes from first to last lib to consider. I am sure 3rd Liberation in the WDA yesterday if they had been to schedule would have not been pleased to have the Tyne to Tweed Section appearing in their path as they went over.


I am only asking the question do I not as a right to ask this question. When an employee off the wda who was there said peter was advised to get the birds away at half six and the response was no I am waiting for the unc. Tell me why we do not have a right to ask and also why it it an unfair comment it's not a comment it's a question..

Blaydon Racer's picture

Stuart in his post mentions democracy . Well lets see some real democracy --when the proposals are finalised as to a solution regarding yb racing let the members decide what they want by giving every loft in the Amal a vote to see which option they prefer Then whatever the majority of all the members want will be the way to go Much better than having a few delegates decide because no matter how they vote they will not be representing the voice of all members in their respective feds.

Albert Jones
Winlaton HS

peter matthews's picture

Was told at thorsby hall by Stevie proffit he was libberating soon at 7,40 at 7,55 he said he was going to cut and then he tells me he waiting for DC to come through at 8,19.was defo full cloud till 6,50 near clear skies by 7,20.only 3 people out of bed at 6.30 me.peter oughton and dan jenkins. Peter matthews

Pigeon 1981 - yes you can ask questions but do you believe using the words "we never had the guts" is the right way to go about it?
More so when you do not add your name to your posts. (Despite it being a requirement to do so, which has been advised both via the site and feedback from WDA meetings to do so).

I have a question for you then, who is the driver who is undermining the Chief Convoyer?

Is it the wda. If so the wda needs to be paying for a company web site.

Hi Albert,

currently all members have a vote via their Club and then via their Fed at Amalgamation level via a mandated delegate. I agree it is not ideal but how do you propose to give each member a vote?

Via Ballot papers?

If we cannot get members to attend Club meetings can you see them filling in ballot papers?

Apathy rules, you could end up with 15% of the membership submitting voting papers and then deciding how the whole of the WDA are to be liberated, is that democratic?

Be careful what you wish for, you may find that your Fed votes to have your pigeons liberated 10 minutes after the rest of your club/Fed :) :) :)

When it's owned by the wda I will use my name and when the pay the fees for a company ran web site. This I a privately owned web site by Brian Ford so the wda has no right to put rules on brain does yes. Do u have to you's your name on pigeon chat or pigeonland. If every one is saying it's owned by the wda extra fees apply. Also I am not going to give his name because you know what will happen to him. There is lads on here who it was said to. I ask if it was right he said that before anyone has ago at him if he came out which he hasn't . Well fair enough I want to know if the person that told our club member is right. I can't see how this is to cause trouble it's a str8 forward question. A yes or no question. Like I say if brain wants me to use my name as the owner of this web site that is fine. But not as a wda rule because the web site isn't a wda web site.also I have put praise on here for people and comments and results and never been asked for my name so why now. ??? Plus I use my e-mail on hear to register which has my name and Brian can find out who I and I am 99% sure he does .

I do own the site but I run it for the benefit of the members of the WDA [and others], I am sure that you know At the beginning of the year all members were asked to sign their posts with their real names.
I don't think its an unfair request, members need to know who you are and where you fly, If someone phoned you making accusations and saying you have no guts would you take any notice if they were unknown, I answered your question to Peter, it was full cloud cover at 6-30, why should Peter lie BEFORE the race, Its easy for someone with no responsability to say ''THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN UP'' and then after the event say ''its nothing to do with me I'm only an helper'', If your informant has been going with the Amal for so long why did he not put up for the C/Convoyers job, perhaps he should come to tomorrows meeting and make the same statements in front of the officials of the WDA,
Please add your name to the posts, It makes things so much better, Have you seen the advert with the policeman wearing reflective sun glasses and the guy he's talking to is getting really agitated, the policeman removes his glasses and everybody calms down, thats how it works on here, I'm not bothered what pigeonland and pigeonchat do but have noticed that when a post goes on someone usually asks where the poster flies
Dont take this as having a go, I'm only trying to explain what people think

Several remarks veiled or otherwise. Stuart if the birds had been liberated in groups. We would have been completely wiped out.
JPM cGough. I for one am delighted common sence prevailed.

I only asked a bloody question not slagging anyone or nothing then start to get slated. This is the problem with the sport today every one wants there own way and think of there selves. If Brian wants me off the web site that's fine I don't see the question asked was having ago at peter.

I heard the same as u so some one is losing when there 100s lost something not rtie can't blame the birds there all not bad
A . Middleton

come on lads / has been some constructive comments ...think its time to leave it , for a while see what comes from meeting ??....

I totally agree !!!

At the end of the I think we all want the same thing to cut losses and get good races.

Blaydon Racer's picture

Hello Stuart

Firstly I am not looking for arguements as the whole point of this discussion was to try and come up with some suggestions as to improve the current dire situation regarding yb losses however in response to your post regarding how it would work here's how it could be done

Firstly get the proposals in and then put them to the membership in the following way :-

Say there are 4 options
A Stay as we are with the current groups
B All up together
C North/South and East/West
D High and Low sides

Send out Ballot papers to each club- have a meeting and let the members vote as to which option they prefer
Take a club with 25 members the voting might be
A 1 (There's always one )
B 12
C 5
D 7

Repeat the process right through the Amal total all the votes for each option and let's see what the majority of members really want .

The delegates have been trying for years to agree and have failed with the resultant empty lofts and dispirited members Like cph said TIME FOR CHANGE

Albert Jones
Winlaton HS