Meeting young birds

Any word on the meeting which took place today regarding youngsters?

Cheers ken

Comments

hi Ken, plenty said but nowt changes. Concludes report shows was unfit at Newark at 05:27 onwards and still no chance of a Libra the anticipated Lib time of 06:30. Weather was better due South so the three organisation's going to Essex were liberated. UNC at Worksop also stopped libs at one point as weather closed in. WDA had a chance for lib but would only be a small window for one cut. Weather broke and pigeons went at 11:05 and went North and were away quickly. 15 minutes later fully cloud pulled in. Convoyer report given to all delegates to take back to feds. Asked about comments on this site as to why the pigeons were not up at 06:30 and it categorically was not fit to liberate at 06:30 and drivers who dropped panniers at clubs were tucked up asleep in their Cab at that time so not sure how they knew what the weather was like to be winding members up. 2 Feds did not attend WD and CON, other delegates all passed opinion as to Saturday and previous races. It is clear Newark was the first difficult race for some Feds yet for Darlington, Deerness Valley, Sacriston and West Durham it was the 4th consecutive poor racing poor race. As I

Sure other delegates will add more but feeling from Newcastle is they wish to be liberated with Consett, Tyne and Derwent and Annfield Plain as a Northerly group, not on their own but also not with Darlington, some Feds want all up together and some groups but the group's have to be worked out more logically if they go ahead next season.Feeling is Newark is to be avoided as the 4th race due to number of other organisations on site. More feedback 're Wakefield not being conducive to good racing - majority of pigeons lost from first 2races are reported with a WF postcode. Locals advise they drop into a nearby valley and struggle to get out. Fanciers from 2 of the Aycliffe libs posted terrible returns on Facebook Saturday evening (copy sent to Alan Brown and chief convoyer) one lib had a great race. UNC convoyer reported many pigeons over Teesside Saturday afternoon that may have been WDA pigeons from direction they came from and headed towards. Officials and delegates are all concerned over poor racing but members need to try different options, perhaps old birds up with ybs for first 2 races to break the batches at front drop. Also to get the ybs to get a better line. Consider programme to educate ybs instead of trying to get as far as possible. 3 shorter races - 2 Wakefield a Thoresby Hall and then 3 or 4 races from Leicester distance before a Huntingdon and YB Nat. It will give them an opportunity to get some experience and also allow any YB that has made a mistake to be eased back in.
A suggestion was made to have group's for first 6 races to give the size of group to settle for when all up together.
More training prior to the first YB races to ensure pigeons have experienced a big lib/breaking from batches rather than first experience of other pigeons is at the first race.

Normal time collections for YBs if races delayed by 24 hours to reduce time YBs are in panniers. Not ideal with sickness rice etc.

One thing is obvious, information is not being passed or understood when passed back from meetings following comments on Facebook/pigeonland etc. regarding lib order and groups etc. Members seem unaware Newcastle asked to be liberated first as they are on their own. Feds are incorrectly identified as refusing to lib with Newcastle when others would have but other Feds did not wish the in that group. To much emphasis is put on rumour and gossip at the moment, if your not sure about something the ask the Official`s and get the truth.

We need to work together but it will not be simple to resolve as some Members are not all in favour of groups from the shorter YB races nor are all members in favour of all up together. What may seem a logical grouping to a member of Consett Fed for example will be illogical to a member of the West Durham Fed.

Hopefully something can be agreed to give all members good racing as some Feds are being wiped out week after week and others only get a yukking on a race like Newark.

Any change to voting must be submitted to AGM from a Fed as a proposition and seconded and obtain a majority. It requires a change to the Amal constitution.

Prize giving at Swalllwell - AlanTodd will post details again, book tickets early.

Mention was made 're offensive posts about WDA officials on here and other sites. WDA info will be posted on here. This site is able to be read by anyone, as such access will be revoked if offensive posts are made.

Convoyer report !!!!!!!

Blaydon Racer's picture

Oh dear- so you need to have a vote to see if we can have a vote.
Just the type of forward thinking we need to solve the problem
Sorry but I can't see this ever getting any better .
Remember Nero fiddled while Rome burned

Albert Jones
Winlaton HS

IF U GET SOME FORWARD THINKING PEOPLE AT
THE MEETINGS AND NOT IDIOTS LIKE G BURTON
WE MIGHT MOVE FORWARD

Many thanks for the comprehensive feed-back.

Firstly, it is disappointing that 2 Feds. were not represented. No doubt they sent their apologies and reason for non-attendance.

As to the meeting-not sure what more we could have expected. The convoyer's report back stands up to scrutiny and there is no question that Peter has the birds welfare as his priority. One thing is for certain there are many reasons for poor young bird racing non of which individually offer a satisfactory answer. YBS and its affects should not be underestimated, inadequate race preparation, clashing and not least difficult and unpredictable weather conditions all play a part in racing outcomes.

That just leaves the way forward and I personally had no expectations from this meeting. I would however think that the WDA needs to make an immediate start on resolving the whole "Liberation" questions for both old and young bird racing.
The membership needs to be more involved and if matters are delayed 2015 will be upon us and all we will see is some fiddling at the edges and nothing of any real effect and benefit to the birds.
One thing for certain is Social Media is not the route. Used correctly it can be a great tool but we should not forget that many members will not have access and this leads to rumours, misrepresentation and ultimately ill-feeling. This is not good for the sport and we must be more professional in our approach to how we use it.
In that respect the WDA need to either take ownership of the current site or create a new official one. That way the WDA would be able to set out operating requirements (processes) including the monitoring arrangements.

Again many thanks for the report-lets hope the WDA take speedy action by setting out a clear "Race-programme" action plan that includes full membership involvement and outcome deadlines.

bob mckie

Bob half the problem is groups are getting smaller through members more bothered about winning than welfare of birds .Also a lot of members make their views known but don't send young birds hence making groups smaller .Take our fed which you are a member of.At our fed meeting it was voted to make our group smaller and go with just Annfield plain because they didn't want their birds coming off the bottom and it was stated more members from the top end who have not flown the early races would fly.What has happened to those members.They have not sent birds making itworse.So support the races it would help with numbers.
Alan Todd

Alan makes a point that came out last night members are not supporting the first young bird races leaving the libs smaller in number of pigeons and every week more untried and inexperienced youngsters are in the convoy and get a tough lesson.

Thanks Alan and Stuart for your comments.
Grouping may have some relevance but it is only a minor factor in the broader issue of young bird losses and given we are all up together from now on !!!!
The point I would make is that Pigeon Racing is a minority sport and a continuation of falling membership is a major concern.
The WDA needs to act in an attempt to reduce Young Bird losses and improve racing in general. In my opinion it was disappointing that we missed the opportunity to take positive steps at Wednesday's meeting. It is to late now for this season but a small group could have been established (Chaired by Alan Brown, supported by members not currently holding official positions) with a remit to start work on the 2015 race programme issue and all that it entails. Involving members would be a good start for doing the ground work. Whatever happens we should not lose sight of the fact that individuals have different expectations from racing, they have many competing priorities to balance and the decision when to race is personal to the member. The costs of feed, training, chip rings, possible courier cost and birdage charges continues to increase so we must do everything possible to keep the fun and enjoyment within the sport.
Albert Jones, makes a good point about Nero in his earlier post -procrastination could be our downfall. Lets get a grip of this issue once and for all and not just waste time with idle chat.

Regards

bob mckie

having attened the meeting last night to discuss saturdays race.i brought the subject up that could their have been any coinsedance with the birds been liberated all together for the first time 9,000 birds that they could have panicked and took wrong line of flight.my reasoning behind this is that in 2013 exactly the same thing happened from the leicester race.(yes the birds were libbed at 1.30 but at the special meeting the line of flight and race report there shouldnt have been any problems)just like saturdays race.reguarding groups wd,sac,dv and dar are the biggest group with approx 3,500 birds yet some of these lofts have suffered heavy losses from the 4 races we have flown many of them being top performance lofts.none of us have got the answer other wise it wouldnt be happening.sacriston fed also requested the convoyer to resign.sacriston fed also wanted an explanation from p.mathews and s.meadows as to why they voted not to go and race from 2nd wakefeild on the sunday (raced monday) there answer was they didnt think forcast was good enough.race comittee are doing the best they can to get us good racing and we have to stand by their desicion,i also commented iff we had 2 libs(2 groups) for 6 races then all up together may make a difference.also remove 1 race from programme leaving a weeks gap(no racing)this would give every one the oppurtunity to get there youngsters trained.transporter could be arranged for cr/cock/wd and dar to ripon for training.(it is already avail for other feds)iff u want changes lets start making them and revise race points.

hi bob,we already a future of the sport committee which include my self,tony coils,derek spoors and alfie hawthorn we could each set a race programme out between us,then hopefully decide which is the best one to accomadate the wda.but unfortunately we would never please every one so would it be worth the effort,with some feds saying they wont go up with this fed or that fed.

Do u think with the weather committee there should be five people north south east west and one in the middle. It stops all the comments and digs if u know what I mean. Not saying this to get slated it's just about covering all bases.

could losses of young birds also be our own down fall.going against nature with the darkness system.as a lot of fanciers state they only want theirs youngsters educated,then why does most fanciers put their young birds on the darkness when they could give them 5 races with no stress related systems.we our selves are guilty but we like to compete and test our birds to see iff they are good enough.this season we have had some youngsters on natural we av lost 2 racing the other 6 have had all 4 races but are now stopped for 2015(all still in good feather)this some thing we will b doing again next year.some of the groups in the u.n.c have had excellent returns from all 4 races ,yet other groups have suffered heavy losses.pigeon racing is full of many ups and downs

pigeon 1981(hi sean).i wouldnt slate any one.i just try to give my honest opinion for wat its worth.there is nothing wrong with putting your proposal in for agm providing their are 2 more members from those areas are willing to give time and effort to ensureing the right decision.our mart constantly looks on various weather sites leading up to weekend.(obviously they dont always get right)

I live my bloody life by the weather if I am getting home from work if helicopters fly or not. I work in an industry multi billion pounds and they can't get it right. That's why I am saying at least four corners so no one can say well they didn't want to be up in this wind and that wind.
Sean

Hi Richard,
Many thanks for your info. I appreciate the ideas driving this committee and can see there has been some excellent work this season. I personally think this should be applauded, it is a real positive in what has been a most difficult year. However (there always is one!!) I sincerely believe each and every Fed should be represented.
I also support the principles behind a weather committee but would think it advisable to see change in personnel annually.(say at least one member). Pigeon 1981 has a valid point on the representational score.

Regards

bob mckie

Any thoughts on line of flight? Anyone think it would be beneficial to the youngsters to take them off the line of flight of the east coast organisations highway (north and south roaders) until the 150 mile plus stage. Surely a more central line of flight down the country is going to give these youngsters less distractions and more sky to them selves.

Sean,

weather Committee is 3 and there is an Emergency committee of 5 to make decisions when there is further discussion required.

There is nothing to stop the Weather Committee being enlarged if a proposition is put forward and passed but it will require someone who is prepared to take the position.

The Emergency Committee was put in place for this season to give a wider coverage from the Amalgamation membership (Crook, Cockfield, Sacriston and Tyne & Derwent Feds) should more discussion be required as to what to do.

Both committee's have an odd number to ensure a majority decision and also abstention is taken as a vote to go. This was done to prevent there being a split vote.

Steven Meadows, Martin Wade and Peter Matthews are the weather committee, the emergency committee is those three plus Tony Coils and Alan Brown.

Many hours are spent by the members of the weather committee deciding if the weather is fit or not before any decision is made and the decision is reported on here by Alan Brown along with the voting if split.

As members we have more information available than ever before via this site from the Officials (and others who post it on their behalf when they are not able to)...

They cannot please all of us every week with their decisions but on the whole they get it right. We got racing with the Old birds when other organisations cancelled this season.
Likewise on the 2nd YB race when we marked Sunday for Monday the NNA cancelled that weekend and although the UNC went Saturday for Sunday not all the Cuts got a decent race, Gateshead Fed for example had losses and didn't get that good a race (Alan Todd watched them arrive and can verify this)... A fast velocity for the winners does not always mean it is a good race... There have been decisions i didn't agree with but when I think the decision is wrong I will not send.

Something else that was mentioned last night, is the WDA Secretary Brian spends hours speaking with race controllers from other organisations to help all of them all know what the WDA are intending to do. For example this Saturday he had 37 calls before a lot of us were up and sent 300 plus texts advising people of what was happening with the liberation. Last Friday he already had Controllers on asking what our plans were for this weekends race that was booked from Leicester.
Peter as Convoyer also speaks to numerous organisations on race days to identify what other organisations are doing.

Last night it was commented by one delegate that we should not worry about the UNC and liberate with no regard for them, just go at booked time every week. When Peter was appointed to the Chief Convoyers job, the membership voted that he should try to avoid the UNC if possible to give the WDA cleaner racing.

Ten years ago the vast majority of the membership had no idea what was happening in the Amalgamation from week to week. Information is distributed to Fed Sec's by text and email but is not always read or passed on. Last night was a prime example with one delegate telling other delegates the meeting was not taking place and others had not read the email they had been sent.

As a delegate I try to post rough notes of the meetings on here to allow as many members of our Fed to see what happened as soon as possible. The Secretaries of the Clubs can also print it off for their members.

Obviously this is available for all Feds members to see and in some cases unless you brought your delegate 5 pints on a Friday night you had no chance of finding out what went on or was agreed until the handbook was published.

Last night Alan Brown also distributed Prize Cards for each Federation for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Prize winners from the Ypres Commemorative race and also for the Nom winner in each Federation. Alan had these commissioned as a suitable momento of the race and Richard Wade obtained sponsorship to cover the cost of these (thanks Richard) and also the first 20 open winners in the WDA from Ypres will receive these prize cards.

Stuart

What I am saying Stuart is for them to have a member in n,e,s,w so no one can say well the wind didn't suit the committee. It's protecting them. I would go for jobs but as I spend half the year in the North Sea I couldn't put up for any!!.

The vast majority of the West/South Yorkshire organisations race the middle route, we could hit far more traffic and have more problems than now (they all want to keep out of our way when we are at the Wakefield/Thoresby Hall area). They hold their libs back to arrive after we have liberated, that will be more difficult the further down we go.

Stuart

I mean our own committee and extra two people for example one from darlo se , one from crook Sw one from conssett Nw and one from sac ne then one smack bang in the middle

Oh and the weather committee haven't done a bad job like I said I wasn't having a go at them.

Sean,

just giving you those currently involved so you knew who they were.

The only ones who came forward were those mentioned.

You can't press gang people into the role and some of us can't get out of bed in the morning to give opinion early enough!

If anyone is prepared to take role's they need to advise their Fed delegate or Alan & Brian so that it can be mentioned at the meetings and can then be considered for them.

Stuart

Can't argue with u on that one.